[00:00:01] Wendy Kendall: Hello, and welcome to this episode of the inspiring psychologist podcast. And in this episode, we are talking about finding your voice, empowerment in private practice through visibility and branding, and I this is such an important topic for us in our practice, I think. You know, thinking about how healing it can be to Find and embrace our unique voice and identity within our practice. And so today, I've got co hosting with me Doctor. Amber Johnston, who is from Healthy Mind Psychology.
[00:00:48] Wendy Kendall: And Amber will do a little bit of intro to herself. But I know, You know, Amber and I, you and I, we've had lots of conversations about visibility, about showing up in our practices, And I just love welcoming to you, and I just love welcoming you to the podcast today. So can you share a little bit about who you are, what your practice is about?
[00:01:14] Dr Amber Johnston: Absolutely. So I'm doctor Amber Johnson. I'm a clinical psychologist with a specialty in neuropsychology. But in the past few years, I've taken kind of a real detour into recognizing that and this is Key, I think, is that I didn't recognize before how much health based work I was doing naturally with all my neurorehabilitation that I had been spending A decade plus, Dorian. So I made this bit of a pivot to have more time in private practice helping people that Really needed more support on an emotional level with physical health condition, and then learning as I go how much there is a, A back and forth.
[00:01:54] Dr Amber Johnston: There is a this mind body divide that people talk about that doesn't really exist, and that message was something I felt very passionate about wanting to Yes. So I can get out there.
[00:02:04] Wendy Kendall: Exactly.
[00:02:05] Dr Amber Johnston: So, yeah. And so I've known you from being on on the TBPA course. And Yeah. This was what my whole mission of of the years have been is trying to make sense of Having a practice, but not really having the clarity of the messaging and and how much work needed to go into that, but it hadn't really occurred to me beforehand.
[00:02:29] Wendy Kendall: Exactly. So Amber is co hosting with me today and that's because we also have a very special guest who's joining us, Tanya Bhattachariah, is joining us all the way from California. And, Tanya, I'm gonna bring her in. She's going to let us know what she's all about because Tanya and I have been working together, on bringing our story to the world as well. So welcome to this podcast, Tanya.
[00:02:58] Tania Bhattacharyya: Hi there. It's so good to be here. Thank you so much for having me. This is a real treat. Hi.
[00:03:04] Tania Bhattacharyya: Hello. It's great
[00:03:06] Wendy Kendall: to have you. Tanya, Explain a little bit about, like, your background because when you and I first started working together, what I loved is that even though can I put it this way? You don't identify as a psychologist, but, like, you have a background in this and I I like, we were so much on the same wavelength and I felt you really got and understood DUD, what it was to be visible in a practice as a psychologist. So give us a little bit of an insight into where that came from, please.
[00:03:41] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. Yes. Yes. So I you know, even though I don't identify as a psychologist or a therapist, I kind of grew up in the mental health care space in terms of My entire career was working for an addiction treatment program that served women, pregnant women, you know, women with their children, And I got my degree in psychology as well. Although I never, you know, I never became licensed.
[00:04:03] Tania Bhattacharyya: I never became an actual therapist doing direct services. I lifted up the organization and the community and was exposed to some really incredible things where I really kinda cut my teeth and learned about learned about this Work. You know? And and through that work, you know, one of the most interesting things is from the very beginning of when I started working at organization to the very end, the thing I love doing the most was help helping the women who had gone through our program share their story. You know?
[00:04:33] Tania Bhattacharyya: And at first, it started out meeting kinda impact stories for our newsletters and our marketing, but became something else because I saw how Powerful it was for these individuals to sit and share their narrative and rewrite it from one that was very much rooted Still in their addictions, still very much rooted in the shame and the trauma, and change that change that story into that was a lot more about their vision for the future and their hope and their family and what what they dreamed up in terms of their life now, and what I saw was that these individuals who started rewriting their stories, they ended up becoming incredible Advocates. Like, they started nonprofits. They became speakers. You know? They They, you know, they they ended up on TV talking about their recovery in a really positive way and inspiring other people.
[00:05:26] Tania Bhattacharyya: You know what I mean? So, Yeah. It it just it just showed me how powerful storytelling and visibility and and and, actually, in branding in a way is, because So often, the story that we have about ourselves becomes a story other people have about us. You know?
[00:05:42] Wendy Kendall: Right. Right. Exactly. And the, I'm gonna come on. There's so many threads like, I really wanna pull out of that.
[00:05:48] Wendy Kendall: But I also wanted to mention that you have More than a passing interest in internal family systems. So I was like, when you and I started talking and I mentioned parts and You and you were like speaking this language. I was like, this is like finding the holy grail of Marcus because now, like, we were like really on One of his way blinds and talking about story and all of these things. So, yeah, tell us about what kind of intrigued you about IFS in this in this space.
[00:06:21] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. Well, you know, when I think about my own visibility journey, because I was helping these women create their stories and their narratives, And in my own career, it became a time where I became the executive director of this mental health care organization, and I was you know, I think I had just turned 30. I am, you know, a woman of color. There weren't a lot of people around the the boardroom table, if you will, that looked like me. And so I had a lot of Voices start to emerge sharing why it was a lot more safer not to get visible, but then, of course, I had the very real actual voices of my Board of directors and my and our donors saying, you know, I think you really need to go speak at this event, or, you know, I think you really need to, You know, do x, y, and z, and they were right.
[00:07:03] Tania Bhattacharyya: I mean, that's that's the truth. They were right. And so that became an opportunity for me to really look inward at these Voices that were saying things like, you don't even have a, you know, a PhD or you don't even have you know, whatever. There's so many different voices. Realizing that those were all voices that emerged as parts to as protective responses.
[00:07:26] Tania Bhattacharyya: Right? They weren't bad. They weren't, you know, just something that I could just get over. They were very real protective Responses like little mini chaperones. And, actually, how beautiful is that that we have these little chaperones trying to keep us safe?
[00:07:43] Tania Bhattacharyya: And so Thus began the journey of realizing, okay. They're trying to keep me safe. I actually am safe. How can we all get on the same team and on the same page To move forward in alignment. And so that was my first entry into that work.
[00:07:57] Tania Bhattacharyya: I learned about it when I was still at the organization, And then I got deeper into it when as I worked with a coach named Emily Rowe, who happens to be here in California, who really, really helped me identify who was Speaking in that moment and help me build relationships with those parts so that we could move forward. And that's why I don't even call these things, like self limiting beliefs. You know? People Talk about perfectionism and imposter syndrome as self limiting beliefs. I think they're systematically limited beliefs, you know, and that's just a small distinction.
[00:08:27] Tania Bhattacharyya: But to me, that's calling out the fact that we weren't born with these things. They were protective responses that emerged to to stay safe in these in these systems that we live in. You know? Right.
[00:08:40] Dr Amber Johnston: You know, I really like I really like the idea of calling them these little protector pieces, you know, Within the IFS concept too. But I think one of the biggest things that I always struggled with was that we have these Protective voices that have been learned in my in my experience, I think, with some of my colleagues from our governing bodies or for Yeah. The The, you know, the the our doctoral, you know, supervisors are those who are always saying to you, remember your power, remember, you know, your ethics, remember that You have to be very careful about what you're putting forward or how you are presenting yourself in a way that means that potentially psychologists in particular are always thinking about, am I putting myself first? Is that right? Am I doing what's right for my clients and my patients that are counting on me?
[00:09:29] Dr Amber Johnston: And some of that battle has been one of my limiting factors. Yeah.
[00:09:33] Dr Amber Johnston: way you're reframing that in terms of those are those protective voices, though, they need to be there Keeping you questioning, what you're doing. Always be thinking along those lines.
[00:09:44] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes.
[00:09:46] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. And I mean what you say about, you know, the those additional challenges that we have I think in this. I mean, I don't work in the mental health space, right? So I'm an organizational psychologist by training. I have this I does anyone know
[00:10:02] Dr Amber Johnston: how to
[00:10:03] Wendy Kendall: turn this off? I I literally looked before we started recording and I don't even know how to turn these AI generated emojis off. Someone's panking me on, like,
[00:10:14] Dr Amber Johnston: on a Just keep going. Just keep going. Yeah. Oh, yes. Goodness.
[00:10:19] Wendy Kendall: I keep the same because people will be wondering what's going on, honestly. But, so I use a lot of hand gestures. And just to warn anyone Shingles on video that may generate different kind of emojis. We don't know what's gonna happen. Little little parts just coming out.
[00:10:36] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Just adding to the
[00:10:40] Dr Amber Johnston: mix. Totally. Totally.
[00:10:43] Wendy Kendall: So, You know, our our, all of our governing bodies have these, and our regulatory bodies have these, you know, very well Vended Protectors That Have Built Up For Years. Right? I mean, literally, the name of them is, like, regulatory parts. And and so when I think about, you know, I think it does create additional challenges for us when we work in this space. Not just the, you know, explicit rules.
[00:11:17] Wendy Kendall: So I'm thinking about rules like Testimonials, for example, you know, this whole social proof topic. I know, for example, in both Canada and Australia, you're Still not allowed to use testimonials if you're a therapist. The British Psychological Society when I was first getting chartered so early 2000, still had that rule.
[00:11:39] Wendy Kendall: And there are a lot of people within our profession that kind of still hold to that as well, you know, they're deeply suspicious about this whole thing of being visible, being on social media. And like you said, Amber, you know, the the the the risk of projection and all these other things. And yet within IFS, for example, IFS would say, you know, parts are not burdens, so maybe there are burdens within the system. There are things that we've learned that have caused us to take more extreme positions than we really need to. And, you know, therefore questioning How could so I guess the question came for me and it was a little bit of a pivotal moment for me in, thinking about my own visibility, which was Rather than thinking about being out there on social media, on the web on the interwebs, on the Internet, as promotion, as, influencing in a in some kind of negative way.
[00:12:46] Wendy Kendall: How about it being a a different space for connection and a place where actually we can potentially resource Peoples we can resource people and we can and we can provide if we show up in certain ways, we can provide safety for people still. You know, we can still be safe peep safe people to connect with even in the online space.
[00:13:14] Dr Amber Johnston: And knowledge. Yeah. You know, the the benefits of having, you know, so much of our very specific very specific training that we've done for So many years to be able to reach an audience, but, you know, we I think sometimes we forget how valuable that is. I'm always surprised. I'm always surprised when I say something that's really basic in terms of training and people are lapping it up.
[00:13:38] Dr Amber Johnston: Oh, that's really it. Because in my world, everybody knows this. This is, you know, where you begin. Like, I'm doing all the hand gestures. Do that.
[00:13:46] Dr Amber Johnston: This is where you begin with things. So the idea of Creating safety with knowledge sharing too. Yes.
[00:13:54] Tania Bhattacharyya: That's so true. It's that curse of knowledge. I I Completely, completely relate. And and you know what that curse of knowledge piece made me think of, which is maybe an interesting story that intersects with what we're talking about, is back in the day when I worked this residential program, we had a wall, and we I I don't know if you're familiar with the TED Talk. It's by Candy Chang.
[00:14:14] Tania Bhattacharyya: It's Before before I die, I want to. She's actually a New Orleans native.
[00:14:19] Dr Amber Johnston: Oh, yeah.
[00:14:20] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. And so after hurricane Katrina, She paint there were all these just dilapidated, you know, spaces, and so she took it upon herself to paint along the across the side of these old buildings, before I die like, it she painted them black, and then before I die, I want to and just left a bunch of space there. And it really took on a life of its own, and people started just writing their hopes and dreams and goals and aspirations. And it became this movement. Right?
[00:14:48] Tania Bhattacharyya: And she turned it into a talk. And so we had our own before I die, I want to wall. And so anytime our patients wanted to, they could go up and write, you know, their vision for their life on this wall. And I walked by that wall every day. I'd be on the cell phone looking at the wall.
[00:15:04] Tania Bhattacharyya: I'd be rushing back and forth, rushing back and forth. And I just knew that story so much that I didn't think it was a big deal. But then once I decided to share about it on LinkedIn, you know, of course, not sharing any Confidential information, just the concept of this wall, and it really took it just blew up, and people were like, that's such a great idea. They watched the TED talk. One person was like, I'm gonna create this at my own center.
[00:15:28] Tania Bhattacharyya: And it and it to your point as well, it created community. It was a little piece of knowledge and a little nugget. Not Not like didactic knowledge, but like a little story of what we were doing, a best practice kind of. And it just Created this ripple effect just by sharing this thing that I walk by every single day. And so, absolutely, I think that there's things that we can share.
[00:15:49] Tania Bhattacharyya: And if we are not able to share testimonials you know, in the US, I believe we are, but, if we can't share client testimonials, there are still stories about our work that I think we can absolutely
[00:16:00] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. And, there's a couple of things I wanted to come to on that, which is I get the impression sometimes in our in our profession that we sometimes overlook the risk of not being Visible. And it I feel like that risk of not being visible is not just a risk to, you know, having fewer clients than we might have done otherwise. I feel like the risk of not being visible is We don't we're only providing access in one space in that way or in in far fewer spaces than we could be I feel like when we are, in some of these mass media communication spaces, we're actually providing spaces where people can access psychology and psychologists that they wouldn't otherwise have access to. And then I feel like when we take up space in those places, we are also how can I put this?
[00:17:08] Wendy Kendall: Like, if we're not there, other people are there. Right?
[00:17:12] Dr Amber Johnston: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Someone will fill the space.
[00:17:16] Wendy Kendall: Yes. Someone is going to fill the space. So, you know, if we can trust ourselves to fill that space in a way that is actually ethical, then I feel like that's a good thing to do. Right?
[00:17:31] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. Because marketing is mission. You know, I think sometimes people have the misconception that marketing or you know, like, there's a lot of term marketing, branding, visibility. What I'm really talking about, I think, was all the same thing. But, marketing is not just about having a website.
[00:17:45] Tania Bhattacharyya: It's not just about going to a conference. It's not just about speak like, sharing online. It really is an extension of your mission because just like you said, if you are not showing up and sharing about the work that you're doing, there's a Whole audience of people who have been looking for you. They haven't even known that they're looking for you and the unique services you provide, but they'll they they miss out. Right?
[00:18:05] Tania Bhattacharyya: They miss out on that that that Potential bridge that you could have offered them into into health and wellness and healing.
[00:18:12] Wendy Kendall: Yeah.
[00:18:13] Dr Amber Johnston: You know, I find that's one of the things from my That one. You like an actor?
[00:18:17] Wendy Kendall: I was going to say, so I was gonna say, that's a great segue, Tanya, to come to Amber because
[00:18:26] Dr Amber Johnston: I'm all over it.
[00:18:27] Wendy Kendall: Because I've I've literally been bending Amber's ear about the topic of mission for And Amber's like, I know you keep asking me about this, but, and so I'm gonna bring Amber in here because
[00:18:43] Dr Amber Johnston: I would meet with Wendy at least once a month for probably a year where she was like, what's the mission? What's the mission? I don't get it. I don't understand that. What's the mission?
[00:18:52] Dr Amber Johnston: I'll look into the details.
[00:18:55] Wendy Kendall: But it's so hard sometimes. It's especially hard to do that on your own to kind of Dig through and dig through and really get to the heart of what the mission's about. And you had a story about sharing it with your husband as well, Amber.
[00:19:10] Dr Amber Johnston: About I feel like I got it to a point where I've been shaping and working and thinking through, and I was just like, this is it. This is the mission. And I went out to my husband, and he was like, I don't get it.
[00:19:23] Tania Bhattacharyya: That's such a husband response. Isn't it?
[00:19:27] Dr Amber Johnston: It is. And I he looks like that But that's I think that's the point. Like, you just get so in just like what I was just speaking about when I'm realizing that other clients aren't necessarily on the same page as me yet. You know? We'd have that learning journey to go through.
[00:19:44] Dr Amber Johnston: What I almost think is the message I'm trying to put out may not be what my clients need yet. Right. And, you know, going back to the testimonials too, I mean, when you're saying people who may not know that they I need you. That's one of the big things I've always really wrestled with. And, actually, I've had, you know, people before say to me, I would I want you to share my story because I didn't know I needed this.
[00:20:09] Dr Amber Johnston: And and then that becomes difficult because you have a whole group of People who are saying, please, put, you know, put a voice out. You know? Be that mouthpiece because I wish I knew this earlier. Right? You know, you have other people who are gonna feel, like, oh, well, if you did it for them, are you gonna do it for me against my, you know, knowledge?
[00:20:26] Dr Amber Johnston: You know, it becomes it becomes, again, that Ethical, you know, balance with it all too. How do you keep some people safe and secure while helping, you know, others with a mission that they want To share with you.
[00:20:41] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. I think, Tanya, the the other word that you've used a lot on which you were helping us with on LinkedIn especially and which you speak to a lot and I think it's so resonant for us is this topic of story. Yes. And just thinking about what Amber was saying there about some clients, you know, it is transformative for them to share that story.
[00:21:07] Wendy Kendall: What have you seen the kind of yeah. What what are your reflections on on story and the transformational power of story?
[00:21:16] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. Oh, hi. That's such a good juicy question. There's so many different, like, routes that I could take. I mean, the first thing that pops into mind is, you know, I used To orchestrate a big annual event for our, mental health care organization.
[00:21:29] Tania Bhattacharyya: And, you know, hundreds and hundreds of people came. It was a big to do. And what I really, really learned from that is because, of course, we had a committee, and people were like, we should talk about this, and we should talk about that. And, you know, 10 times out of 10, people don't remember the data or the statistics. It's not that people don't care that there's, you know, for example, 9 What's the number?
[00:21:51] Tania Bhattacharyya: 9,000,000 women in America who struggle with a prescription opioid epidemic. See, I'm not even remembering remembering the stat. Like, people don't remember statistics and data, but they will remember the story of that one woman
[00:21:51] Tania Bhattacharyya: 9,000,000 women in America who struggle with a prescription opioid epidemic. See, I'm not even remembering remembering the stat. Like, people don't remember statistics and data, but they will remember the story of that one woman
[00:22:04] Tania Bhattacharyya: Who had a cesarean, Got put on prescription opioids and, you know, the story that she underwent as a result of healing from that. They will remember that for years, right, for years. And so I think storytelling is the most powerful tool that we have as change makers. And if we are in a position where we are potentially not able to share the stories of others even if they have consented and want us to. We always have our story.
[00:22:29] Tania Bhattacharyya: Right? We always have our story of what we overcame And what we struggled through to become the guides we are today. Because there's a reason we became therapeutic professionals. Right? Therapists, psychologists, healers of some sort.
[00:22:40] Tania Bhattacharyya: There's a reason. And so I think digging deep into that story can help us sometimes, you know, on the point of mission, come up with our mission. Because so often, it's what we needed In our own story, that becomes what we can give others, and and that becomes our mission. You know?
[00:22:54] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Definitely. Exactly. And The thing that, another thing that really struck me when I'm thinking, you know so we obviously support psychologists to, kind of reenvisioning the story or or reformulating the story of their practice and the story that they wanna live through their practice. And when and, obviously, then we end up talking about this topic of visibility and and branding, which is a slightly slightly different, storybook kind of related to it.
[00:23:31] Wendy Kendall: And I guess one of the things, that grabs me often is or that I kind of fight against a little bit out there in the market is the kind of, coaching that says when okay. You're a practice owner and you're a business owner, and that means you have to wear lots of different hats. So one day you're gonna have to put your marketing hat on, and one day you're gonna have to put your finance hat on. And to an extent, that's the case, but When it comes to this topic, I feel like the hat that we put on is actually still a psychologist hat because we work so much with narrative and story. Like, this is an extension of what we do.
[00:24:17] Wendy Kendall: Like, we can Extend our skills and our and the way we show up with clients and just make that small shift into showing up in different spaces. I don't feel as though this needs to be A massively different way of being in the world for us as psychologists. So I notice Tis you agreeing with me, but I'm wondering about your perspectives on that.
[00:24:46] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. I I love that. So I agree. I think we can integrate our identities and show up As we are in all of the spaces that we are in. Right.
[00:24:53] Tania Bhattacharyya: And so
[00:24:54] Wendy Kendall: Say it much better than me. I will go with that. That was much Better than I was trying to get out there, Tanya.
[00:25:01] Tania Bhattacharyya: No. No. You you you said it perfectly. And, you know, somebody who I think about is my friend Joy Malik. So she is a She is a therapist as well, and she's also a coach for INFJs, like Myers Briggs INFJs.
[00:25:12] Tania Bhattacharyya: I have an INFJ, and, She specifically works with that population, which is, like, the the smallest percentage. You know, it's, like, 3% of the of the population are INFJs, Which so I love how she's niched down that deeply into it. But Yeah. When I asked her about how she comes up with content, you know, I asked her this on my podcast, The Campfire Circle, She had a really good answer, which was, you know, it's it's not that she's putting on her marketing hat. It's just that she's sitting down In the morning with a cup of coffee and reflecting on, like, what what do I need to hear this morning?
[00:25:46] Tania Bhattacharyya: Right?
[00:25:47] Tania Bhattacharyya: What did I need to hear 10 years ago when I was in the middle of my healing journey, and I felt totally misunderstood, like, what did I need to hear at that time? You know? Because so often, again, we are not always, But often, we are serving a version of who we once were. And so I think that we have the answers, you know, contain we have the questions and we have We have some answers, maybe not all of the answers, but I think it's just about, you know, creating a practice where we sit down and ask ourselves the Questions that we wish we had been asked and come up with, and that essentially creates content. It's it's both a practice of self Actualization, I think, and healing and creativity, but it also creates content that then can ripple out into the universe and kind of scale our impact.
[00:26:37] Wendy Kendall: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:26:39] Dr Amber Johnston: You know, as a clinician, I think that one of the battles that I've gone through is Just that idea that, you know, we are trained to stop talking. We are trained to be quiet, to listen, to, you know, to really develop those skills. I mean, I remember when I was first trained, in DC, that was much more psychodynamic, you know, going on some psychoanalytic train. And I would have supervisors. Some were just like, So so exactly.
[00:27:10] Dr Amber Johnston: And and that was the whole you know, just laughing earlier about filling space Since such, you know, I'm somebody who has become really good at sitting in silence and and allowing that and letting what Happens to to evolve naturally. So I think that's another one of those hurdles is Yeah. Being somebody, to talk To and I there's always gonna be didactic parts of our of our, clinical work and actually doing teaching, and I can kind of harness some of that into this space. But I guess I also have really thought about it, but, all my poor friends, like, that's the stuff that I show up with. You know?
[00:27:47] Dr Amber Johnston: We talk about I I Come on to, you know, my different social media platforms, and I'm either talking about more the didactic stuff that I'm doing in my own personal Reading in the, you know, bathtub for fun, or I'm talking about the different, you know, conversations I've been having with my friends about Because that's what people are talking about. And then, you know, put it online.
[00:28:10] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Exactly. I think I want you to come to this topic of branding. Whilst we've got a branding expert
[00:28:20] Dr Amber Johnston: in the room, How
[00:28:25] Wendy Kendall: would you describe branding and how it's kind of different to visibility?
[00:28:32] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. Good question. Good question. Because you've got all these terms flying around. Right?
[00:28:37] Tania Bhattacharyya: And sometimes everything is kind of used interchangeably, but I love this Sort of, thought exercise around definition. And so I would say visibility sort of entails, You know, everything under the process of raising awareness around the work that you do in the world and why you do it. Right? It's showing up in the spaces where your audience is, whether it's social media or a podcast or Conferences or speaking or, you know, all these kinds of different things. Whereas branding, of course, is similar.
[00:29:05] Tania Bhattacharyya: But I think In an ideal world, the work of branding would come first because I see branding as sort of like the conscious exercise of Getting clarity on who you are, who you stand for, who you want to serve, what are your values, what is your vision that you're working towards, You know, what is it that you uniquely do so well and wanna be known for? And so while I just said, you know, I think I to come first. I also, at the same time, think that they're parallel processes because, you know, as you show up and get visible and and just Show up from the heart where your heart leads you as you let your passion emerge, as you start to see who is interested and who's coming up. Like, I, Amber earlier mentioned, you know, sometimes I'll share this and I realize, oh, the clients I actually wanna serve aren't quite there yet in your journey. So it's all a test At the same time.
[00:29:05] Tania Bhattacharyya: But I think In an ideal world, the work of branding would come first because I see branding as sort of like the conscious exercise of Getting clarity on who you are, who you stand for, who you want to serve, what are your values, what is your vision that you're working towards, You know, what is it that you uniquely do so well and wanna be known for? And so while I just said, you know, I think I to come first. I also, at the same time, think that they're parallel processes because, you know, as you show up and get visible and and just Show up from the heart where your heart leads you as you let your passion emerge, as you start to see who is interested and who's coming up. Like, I, Amber earlier mentioned, you know, sometimes I'll share this and I realize, oh, the clients I actually wanna serve aren't quite there yet in your journey. So it's all a test At the same time.
[00:30:00] Tania Bhattacharyya: It's all a, you know, a parallel process of showing up, Getting you know, get learning from those experiences, using that to craft our brand even more deeply, getting clarity around that. And at the end of the day, I think when we lean into all of this being a test, it helps us dive it helps us, unhook from that perfectionism Story and instead, you know, get into the story of, like, oh, this gets to be play. This gets to be play. This gets to be A process of learning, you know, who is it that I really wanna serve, and how do they wanna show up, and what language do they use? And, okay, Let me incorporate more of that into my brand.
[00:30:40] Tania Bhattacharyya: And so the 2 kind of go hand in hand, but I'd say the branding piece is that more strategic piece of around figuring this Out, and then visibility comes after that. Visibility are the actions you take once you have crafted your brand. Does that how does that land with you all?
[00:30:55] Wendy Kendall: I love it and I had another reflection on it as I was thinking about this topic as well, and thinking about the healing potential of brand. And I I think you alluded to it earlier, Tanya. So one of the things that, Strikes me about almost like healing through private practice is how This space can allow us to connect with and bring into Our life, like, parts of ourselves that were lost along the way or that we Lost track of or that we forgot about or that we had to hide. You know, you you mentioned about the the boardroom and whether parts of you were able to show up there, and, and I think a lot of us have had those experiences. So I think about how we can almost kind of find again those different parts of us that we had to kind of let go of along the way.
[00:31:59] Wendy Kendall: And so finding them is part of the healing process. I feel like with branding, it's So more than the visual aspect of being visible, it's about exploring Who we are, our identity, how as you mentioned, how we show up in the world, but also how, Like, how are people experiencing us, in in all these different ways? How You know, the color choices that we make, the background that we have, the colors that we wear, The the sounds that we might use on a real like, all these different facets of who we are and how we come across in the world. And Yeah. And in that sense, I don't know if I'm making any sense whatsoever, but we find more parts of ourselves to bring into that space.
[00:33:02] Wendy Kendall: That was the point I was trying to make.
[00:33:05] Dr Amber Johnston: You know, I think that that's a I have you know, I'm really curious of your views as well about this, Tanya, but I think I've had a number of colleagues Who are saying, like, how do you start? You know, you're there doing a job. You have, clients So you need to see you have, you know, financial obligations you have to meet. And a lot of the times, I think people see What we're talking about now as major financial commitments, you know, having to, you know, be 3 years down the line with all of this organized. So Yes.
[00:33:38] Dr Amber Johnston: Do they go from maybe being more generalist because they need to, just taking what comes in, to, like, beginning that Journey to becoming and like you say, Wendy, all the parts show up as you go through that journey.
[00:33:52] Wendy Kendall: Yeah.
[00:33:53] Dr Amber Johnston: How do you get started? How does one begin?
[00:33:57] Tania Bhattacharyya: Love that question. Well, I wanna first start off by saying it's okay to start messy. It's very it's it's actually good to start messy. I think many of us think that we have and myself Included, my past self included. I think we have to show up perfectly with the with the beautiful background, Wendy, right, and the, all the colors ready, and the Canva graphics They're popping and, like, everything is just looking amazing.
[00:34:17] Tania Bhattacharyya: I think looking showing up perfect is actually a barrier to connection Because when our perfect peep when our ideal dreamy readers or, you know, audience members find us and see something that is so perfect, they almost It's almost too perfect. Like, I can't see how I fit into that when it's so well crafted and so well staged. So I think it's okay to start messy. It's Preferable to start messy, Reid Hoffman, who's the founder of LinkedIn, has this quote that I think to myself all the time, which is, if you're not eventually embarrassed by the first version Of what you've put out there, you have wait you have waited too long. You have waited too long.
[00:34:54] Tania Bhattacharyya: And so I think that's really applicable to this work of branding and and showing up. And I think how you get started is, you know, everybody's got different skills. I've never been a very good, like, visual visuals are not my jam. I hire I hire out for that, But I love the process of reflecting and and just and just getting what's on my heart and my mind out onto paper. I'm not necessarily gonna share everything on online that I that pours out of me, but, I think there's a lot of gems in those things.
[00:35:23] Tania Bhattacharyya: So I think sometimes it's about asking yourself questions like, what is the root cause of the work that I do? You know, why are we in this space where, You know, why are we in the space? You know, what's a mistake that I've made that helped me really learn And get good at what it is that I do now. Or, you know, when I was going through the transformation that I now help my clients with, What did I really, really wish that I had known? Or, like, these deep questions.
[00:35:53] Tania Bhattacharyya: You know? Some of these we explored in the sprint, Wendy, but These these deeper questions that we so rarely get the opportunity to sit down and think about, but if we can find, you know, that peaceful moment over a cup of coffee in the morning or that Chat with a girlfriend. If we can explore these questions, I think that's where we start because the answers start to emerge And those are the things that we get to share. You know? It doesn't have to be perfect.
[00:36:17] Tania Bhattacharyya: Not everything needs to have a beautiful canvographic. It can maybe be a selfie of you walking your dog, and that's okay. That's okay. Because it gives people a glimpse into your life and creates that moment of connection.
[00:36:27] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Definitely. So I talk about this sometimes. You you kinda spoke about it earlier being that often we're a guide on a, you know, to people who are on a path that we've been on as well. And I call it being participant observer in our own practice.
[00:36:46] Wendy Kendall: You know, I I studied anthropology a little bit, and I remember we talked about participant, observer in in in at this kind of ethnographic, idea in our practices. So as you said, you know, some of those reflective practices that we may have already, that we may already be doing in our practice, I think, You know, it gives us ideas about what are the things that we can reflect on that other people can perhaps relate to. But my favorite one is the use of kind of GIFs and, memes. Yeah. So So I've got, one of the things that I tend to ask people when, when we start working together about, you know, what what changes they wanna see in the world, I tend to use 3 particular, memes.
[00:37:39] Wendy Kendall: Do you call them memes or memes?
[00:37:41] Tania Bhattacharyya: I think memes.
[00:37:42] Wendy Kendall: Right. Okay. Let's go with memes. And first one is I don't know. Do you know the screaming sheep?
[00:37:42] Wendy Kendall: Right. Okay. Let's go with memes. And first one is I don't know. Do you know the screaming sheep?
[00:37:52] Wendy Kendall: I don't think so. Video on YouTube. I'll have to I'll put it in the show notes, right? So that everyone can it's Just these goats or sheep videos that they have where the goat is like, instead Bleeding and screaming, and it's like literally the sound that goes off in the back of your head. When something or some Someone says something or something happens or a client, like, recounts a story to you, like, I just can't deal that that is going on.
[00:38:24] Wendy Kendall: Like, that needs to change. The other one is the judge Judy eye roll.
[00:38:29] Wendy Kendall: You know this one? Like and then so so there's there's kind of tones of of exasperation. Right? You know, something needs to change. And then the other one is the Jean Luc Picard face palm.
[00:38:46] Wendy Kendall: Like, This may just be culturally where we're at in the UK at the moment. There's a lot of, kind of experiences that are like this, but I feel like there are also these kind of images or these like cultural references that we have that we really relate to that actually tell it's almost like archetypes. Right? They they touch on a deeper story or or something is getting an emotional reaction from us. And so Whatever that is, I'm like, be a participant observer.
[00:39:16] Wendy Kendall: Like, you know, start to unpick what that's about because usually what it's doing is It's touching on something that's values based, and it's also, you know, to touching on something that goes a little bit deeper than just the surface. It's, you know, like the kind of Ross Ash test.
[00:39:34] Dr Amber Johnston: But that's when the courage comes in. Right? That's when it's all about being, You know, courageous in your in your visibility and your practice, being able to because a lot of those things are gonna be they have such, You know, innate response because it's going against the grain and Right. Feeling, you know, having enough To be able to put your face forward and say, I don't think so. And that's really, really tough.
[00:40:02] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. Yes. Yes. That status quo shifting work. It does take a lot of courage.
[00:40:07] Tania Bhattacharyya: And you know what is so interesting is when you take that Risk and you do it. You often find the peep the people emerge who you needed to connect with regardless because you're telling the truth And you're telling their truth and that that community aspect gets created. And I've also found that, you know, this work of drawing a line in the sand Also helps the people who are never really your ideal client. Like, they were never really your ideal audience anyway because they you don't have the same values. They start to go away, and and that's a good thing too.
[00:40:36] Tania Bhattacharyya: Right? That's going to
[00:40:38] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Just thinking about, Just thinking about our framework here, maybe editing this bit out because I've just been so deeply in the process. Actually, Tanya, I was wondering about your own experience of kind of bringing because because obviously you worked in that, you worked in those environments that you described and then you made the shift.
[00:41:10] Wendy Kendall: And so I'm just wondering about what were some of your kind of Judge Judy, eye roll, maybe screaming she, Jean Luc Picard moments that kind of wanted that led to you creating the business that you have now?
[00:41:10] Wendy Kendall: And so I'm just wondering about what were some of your kind of Judge Judy, eye roll, maybe screaming she, Jean Luc Picard moments that kind of wanted that led to you creating the business that you have now?
[00:41:24] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. Yeah. Good question. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to reflect on that a little bit. I mean, when I think about those screaming sheep moments when I was still in the field, it was a lot of a a lot of it was about insurance reimbursement, Just the which I don't know that you you 2 have to deal with now, like the absolute health care.
[00:41:41] Tania Bhattacharyya: Amber does. Yeah. Okay.
[00:41:43] Dr Amber Johnston: I do in the UK, but I also, you know, used to practice in the States. So I know what the battles are over there. It's just getting worse.
[00:41:52] Tania Bhattacharyya: They are. They are. And it was really just any any Practitioner understood, you know, how difficult it was and really just how inequitable it was and how just The decisions that insurance companies were making were resulting in a lot of people not getting the care they needed. So that was a that was a big, you know, thought leadership, Peace. What else?
[00:42:13] Tania Bhattacharyya: I would say, you know, the the the piece around equitable access, you know, especially around 2020 2 and kind of the long overdue racial reckoning that was occurring in in, I think, in the states and and perhaps globally. I don't I don't definitely in the states. And so some of those pieces around who gets access to treatment and who doesn't, you know, systemically, that was another big thought leadership moment. And what is interesting is it A lot of it does take a lot of courage. A lot of fear response starts to come up when you share these things.
[00:42:43] Tania Bhattacharyya: But as I reflect back, you know, the people who we really wanted to work with, they They they believed the same thing. They were these were the conversations we were having, you know, on phone calls and and behind in in safe spaces. And so to bring it online just created more capacity for people to engage in those conversations And start to think differently, start to change their hearts and minds too. And so that's what I wanted to bring out more of as I started my consultancy because I knew So many incredible change makers, you know, founders, EDs, you know, private practice private practitioners, just people who are doing incredible work, And they did not know how to begin sharing it with an audience that could essentially, like I like to say, help them make shifts happen, Either as referral sources, as potentially as clients themselves, you know, as amplifiers, people who get them up on stages. And I primarily work with women because culturally and societally and systemically, you know, we just traditionally have not Been given the space to show up and get big and share and, you know, and do these things.
[00:43:53] Tania Bhattacharyya: I think many of us have been conditioned to be humble to a fault, To be seen and not heard, sometimes not seen at all. And so that's really, really what I wanted to do with my consultancy.
[00:44:04] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And can I ask you any reflections on Any healing you found in that?
[00:44:04] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And can I ask you any reflections on Any healing you found in that?
[00:44:16] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. You know, I just it it's building a muscle. Right? Right. It's building just like going to the gym.
[00:44:21] Tania Bhattacharyya: The first time you try to do a deadlift, like, yeah, it's it's not gonna be cute. It's it's not gonna be pretty. You're not gonna lift that much off the ground. But every time you do it and I know this is a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason. It's it's very true.
[00:44:33] Tania Bhattacharyya: You build this muscle of of Speaking truth to power of of showing up and really sharing what you think, you know, clearly. And And now I can kind of show up and and share what I believe, and and and there's still progression. Like, you're always gonna get stronger. Right? You're always gonna get stronger.
[00:44:50] Tania Bhattacharyya: There's still things that I Think to myself, gosh. Did I really share that? I don't know. And I almost back out. And then yet every time I share you know what's interesting?
[00:45:00] Tania Bhattacharyya: My friend Dana asked me, you know, have you noticed a pattern in what you share? Like, what gets more engagement? And it's those things that I'm scared to share because they are very vulnerable. They're very, I guess I would say courageous. They potentially speak truths of power.
[00:45:13] Tania Bhattacharyya: Those are the things that get the most engagement, and I think it's because I'm not the only one thinking that, but Airing it out gives other people permission to to latch on and start sharing their story of how they experience that thing. You know? Yeah. So it it really does get easier over time. It's building that muscle.
[00:45:30] Dr Amber Johnston: How do you potentially coach or help encourage the women who this is they're new to this and have you know, those parts. And and, you know, so thinking about going on to a platform or having a stage presence, what's How do you how do you help them along with that journey?
[00:45:51] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. Yeah. I think the first piece is getting really clear on a vision, and I know that that That's hard because it can feel very, like, intangible or airy fairy. Like, what but but essentially, it's about asking, like, what is the world that I'm working towards? What if I could bring what I believe in to more people, right, if I could scale the impact of my work, what kind of a world would be created?
[00:46:13] Tania Bhattacharyya: And then how would I operate? How would I live my life? How would I show up in in that world, in that new world? And I know that can be difficult, but I think with enough visionary practice and imagination and definitely with support, right, with support, We can begin to show up that way. And that brings up the other piece.
[00:46:33] Tania Bhattacharyya: It's about vision, but it's also about surrounding yourself with with, essentially, your squad. Right? I like to call this my campfirecircle. Like, the people who have got your back, who when you say this thing, they're gonna lift you up and support you because they believe in the same things. Maybe it's people who you went to, You know, your who you got your master's degree with.
[00:46:52] Tania Bhattacharyya: The you know, I think everybody listening has those, you know, 3 to 5 people who they know have got their back. And so I think it's about enlisting them in the process and letting them know, hey. I'm about to share this thing. I I think I'm gonna have a vulnerability hangover when I share it. The you know, this is big.
[00:47:10] Tania Bhattacharyya: Can you support me? You know, can you support me in this? And and that support can look different ways. It could be engaging in the post. It could be, you know, being alongside them when they hit post that first time.
[00:47:20] Tania Bhattacharyya: You know, there's many different ways to support, but figuring out what it is that you need to take that next step And enlisting your your people in that. I think those are 2 things that are top of mind and what I'd encourage.
[00:47:31] Dr Amber Johnston: I love that vulnerability hangover. I totally know it.
[00:47:34] Wendy Kendall: You love the hangover.
[00:47:36] Dr Amber Johnston: I love them. No. I I love the no. I don't love them at all. I love them.
[00:47:40] Wendy Kendall: I'm like, wow. You have a constitution there. Stitution
[00:47:46] Dr Amber Johnston: there. Yeah. Oh, my hangovers are getting worse. Yeah. No, no,
[00:47:52] Wendy Kendall: I know. We're talking about vulnerability hangovers, but you were saying you enjoy that vulnerability hangover, Tessa. It's like, no, not, not, Not any kind of hangovers, not even
[00:48:02] Dr Amber Johnston: the Golden Dawn team hangovers. Right. I love the term. That's such a good term for it because it does make a lot of sense for what that feels like when you were in that that real state of just going, what have I done? Yes.
[00:48:17] Dr Amber Johnston: Try to move past that and how you find self care and support with that. Because most of it is just our mind. Right? Most of it is just the parts. Give you lots of Protection.
[00:48:28] Dr Amber Johnston: So much. What we've done.
[00:48:30] Tania Bhattacharyya: So much. And then the third piece I would say is what comes after you Take that step, and you start to see the comments and the messages of people who are like, I thank you for saying this. Like, This really resonated with me, or, like, you put words to something that I've been thinking about and couldn't really figure out how to say. And And I and my philosophy is for every one person who sends you a message like that, there's probably, you know, 10 times as many who also thought that And just didn't take the action of actually sending you the message. You know?
[00:48:59] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah.
[00:49:01] Dr Amber Johnston: And what about the ones who are not so kind?
[00:49:04] Dr Amber Johnston: What about those? How do we manage those?
[00:49:07] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. That's a way.
[00:49:08] Wendy Kendall: The longest block list you've ever seen. I mean, we can so my perspective on that is oh, right. Just to be serious for a moment, we first of all, we are allowed to curate.
[00:49:23] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes.
[00:49:24] Wendy Kendall: Our comments as when it I think particularly when they're abusive, trolling, you know, we know the ones that are just Sea Lioning, asking irrelevant questions, doing things to and it's it's often like Box or something, you've put a trigger word into a comment or into a post and, you know, you'll get a bunch of kind of almost automated accounts that come up. And then I think there are there are people who are genuinely, like, mystified by what you've said or something, but Usually, then it's a reasonably human reaction that you can work with. But other than that, they you know, I'm pretty happy with the block button.
[00:50:07] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. Use use the block button. I think of you building your online audience as sort of like you tending to your garden and weeds are gonna Pop up, and and you have the right to, you know, tend to your garden as you will. You don't you aren't required to respond on to every, you know, naggy message that you get at all. And I think, like Wendy said, I think sometimes you can discern who is actually having a curious human Question.
[00:50:31] Tania Bhattacharyya: I think you can work with that, and then there's the people who are just trolling. And and to that end, I have found out of all the social media platforms That LinkedIn tends to be a space that's pretty safe. I think Yeah. About things like Twitter, which is now known as X, or some of these other social media platforms are actually incentivized to get this, like, really, what's the word, just antagonistic Comments going because they're it it supports what they're they make more money that way. It has to do with ads.
[00:50:59] Tania Bhattacharyya: I don't fully understand it, but this is something that I learned. Whereas LinkedIn, they make their money sometimes through ads, but also through premium memberships. And so it behooves them to keep their members happy to keep it safe, to keep it professional, to keep it, you know, more of a safe place to show up. And so I've chosen chosen to just be LinkedIn monogamous. You know?
[00:51:21] Tania Bhattacharyya: not right for everybody. You know? Not everybody you know? I think Instagram can be a great place to find Potential clients and and things like that too. But, yeah, feed your juices with your use of the blog.
[00:51:31] Tania Bhattacharyya: You get to tend your garden. And so That's what I would say. And the last thing I'll say is give yourself the space to, like, feel because it it doesn't feel good to get those messages. And so I think that's another space where your Camp Fire Circle can come in and, go go to go to you know, seek seek support from your community because it is a very real Hurt hurt that emerges when you get those responses. And so go to your your safe people who remind you, you know, who you are, What you believe in, why you should continue.
[00:52:05] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. That's what I'd say.
[00:52:07] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. All of that just reminds me so much of why this process can be so healing. So when I think about, You know, we've experienced in the past, as many of us have, some of those kind of relational injuries where we've learned that, as I said, you know, maybe we we somehow learned or had experiences that if we show up in a vulnerable way, or if we show up in a way that other people don't find acceptable, and then, you know, there's this there's an element of rejection. Actually, when it when we start to show up and, you know, just Little bit by little bit, share what we think, share, you know, stories, share things about our values.
[00:52:57] Wendy Kendall: And then actually we find acceptance and we find community, and we find support, and we find the campfire circle. That is just like That's like a therapeutic process. Right? Yes.
[00:53:11] Dr Amber Johnston: I mean, I'm not a
[00:53:12] Wendy Kendall: therapist, but, Amber, is that a therapeutic process?
[00:53:16] Dr Amber Johnston: Socializing is the number one thing leading to well-being, so finding your community. Yeah.
[00:53:22] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, that makes me think, you know, we as humans, we have a tendency to kind of reflect on the negative more than the positive. And so, another tool that I would say is create a high five file or, you know, some people call it a happy pa. Yes.
[00:53:38] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. And that's just Space where when you get a lovely comment, a lovely message, somebody's saying, oh my gosh, like, thank you so much for anything positive, Save that somewhere. Save that in a little Google Sheet or something. It doesn't have to be high-tech. But that way, when you get that one off random troll who's just kind You know, who's who's doing their thing.
[00:53:59] Tania Bhattacharyya: You have a whole plethora of beautiful comments to reflect back on and remember that that's That's the troll is the one off. You know?
[00:54:07] Dr Amber Johnston: You know, that's a therapy technique only to just even notice when that happens because we're so quick To have just an attentional bias to the threat and not to any of the positives that are coming so actually just working on even notice saying all of those positives that come through and then save it, but but it was working on trying to create balance and and then recognize the bias and how easy it is To put so much additional weight on a negative and then just dismiss, you know, 5 positives.
[00:54:38] Wendy Kendall: Absolutely. Right. So I'm mindful of time. I've got a couple of little questions. Well, and this one kind of relates to what we were just talking about How have you designed your businesses to be places where being visible is more manageable, where it feels safer, and where it might even feel enjoyable.
[00:55:08] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. Yes. Well well, you know, one thing that I learned from the the therapeutic components of, the organization I used to work for was when our, counseling team would create treatment plans for our patients. They would base it on, like, a SNAP framework or strengths, needs, abilities, and preferences. And so I brought that with me into designing my own visibility, like, how I was gonna show up.
[00:55:32] Tania Bhattacharyya: I think a strength of mine is words of all type, writing. You know, it's not the visual pieces of it, and so I decided, you know, I'm not gonna create a YouTube channel because then I have to figure out thumbnails, and I have to figure out Designed in a pretty background, and I'm that's just not my strength. You know? And that's why I went with more of a a written style, and and podcasting where I actually you know, I'm I'm on this this video podcast, but my podcast doesn't have the video component. So I can just show up in my pajamas, And it's okay.
[00:56:03] Tania Bhattacharyya: So I think it's designing how you wanna show up, based on your own, Again, strengths needs abilities and preferences and letting that be perfect, letting that be okay. Because if you are a wonderful Graphic designer, I don't also need you to be a wonderful, you know, essayist. You can do what feels good for you And go all in on that, and that's gonna, help you keep showing up because it's gonna feel good for you too.
[00:56:29] Wendy Kendall: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:56:32] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. So I just second everything Tanya just said.
[00:56:39] Dr Amber Johnston: I learned a lot of this From you already. You get the idea of having your team of people around you too and really balancing out what's not so good for you with something that's somebody else's strength, and that's How you make a really, you know, lovely kind of practice and structure.
[00:56:55] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Exactly. And, you know, we see these kinds of trends of of of people who you know, sometimes who are have just really taken to a particular format like a duck to water and they're, You know, they're paddling ahead and they're getting all these this wonderful engagement, and we're kind of looking at it going, oh my goodness. I'd rather have bamboo splinters Put under my fingernails then do something like that. Because exactly to your point, Tanya, it is absolutely Out of the realms of the the snap, you know, the the strengths, needs, abilities, and preferences that you have, in which case, it's going to feel like torture to
[00:57:37] Dr Amber Johnston: have to do
[00:57:38] Wendy Kendall: that, and and therefore it won't get done. Right?
[00:57:42] Wendy Kendall: And it's so much better to do the thing, and I love it when you see people whose, You know, beautiful way of showing up in the world and sharing what their work is about, how they care for their clients, you know, when it's something like These beautiful doodles that some people do.
[00:58:01] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. Oh,
[00:58:04] Wendy Kendall: and Tanya, for example, you shared with me memes in therapy. Cause Tammy knows I like memes. And I'm like, oh, I wish I was so humorous and clever that I could just come up with these, like, Twipe files means that everyone has, you know, if it makes your heart sing, then go with that, you know.
[00:58:23] Tania Bhattacharyya: Exactly. Anything to make it start from feeling like a chore into more of a process of self fulfillment. And I too wish I was Yeah. Could do doodles. If I could do doodles, I would be so happy, but Grass is always greener, right?
[00:58:34] Tania Bhattacharyya: I bet there's doodleists who wish they could do a video podcast like you.
[00:58:39] Wendy Kendall: Right. Great. Stories on LinkedIn. Exactly. Exactly that.
[00:58:44] Wendy Kendall: Okay. So last second to last question. The last one is really about where can we find you on social media. So hopefully that will be, like, an easy one. But, what would what would you want practitioners to know about being more visible online?
[00:59:00] Wendy Kendall: I'm gonna come to
[00:59:02] Tania Bhattacharyya: You know what's coming up for me right now is, you know and I think part of this is because I started my business in the of the COVID pandemic, and so everyone went online. Right? And so I built so many deep friendships, like, relation could Licht in connections that became, Like colleague relationships, which became friendships, which then became deep friendships where we really, really even though we maybe hadn't met each other, Really knew about this the the storms going on in each other's lives, and we supported each other through it. And we just had each other's backs. And now as things are starting to open up, I've been able to meet many of them in person.
[00:59:38] Tania Bhattacharyya: And it's so fun being able to do that and give people a hug. And I guess what I would say is, You know, you can really find your community, like and the word community is almost overused, but you can really, really find people who Have just got your back, who are in it for the the personal roller coasters, the ups and the downs, who just Have become real true friends, and I never would have thought that when I was tinkering on LinkedIn in the beginning. I never ever would have thought that, but it's just it's true.
[01:00:09] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
[01:00:11] Dr Amber Johnston: You know, what I love about that too is because, again, so many people in private practice feel so lonely, And you never really think that this is another way to to create those connections. It's all about your your own voice and you know? But actually, everybody, there's a lot of people out there who think similarly. It just needs to find each other. So it's another way.
[01:00:35] Tania Bhattacharyya: So good. I love that you made that connection. You're so right. You're so right. I love that.
[01:00:39] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. I think if there's one thing, I'd really want practitioners to to know about visibility. You know, I think in a way, we've we've kinda covered the things that are that most struck me, that were most pivotal to meme in this journey, which is, this is this is actually this, These media harness what we're already good at as psychologists. This isn't something that you have to suddenly develop a whole brand new set of skills around.
[01:01:23] Wendy Kendall: You know? Think about, as you said, Tanya, strengths that you already have, the ways in which you already show up, and be that. Like, you don't have to be someone else or or, You know, show up in a way that isn't who you are.
[01:01:38] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yes. Yes. And you shouldn't. Not just you don't have to. You shouldn't.
[01:01:42] Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. Because people will be able to tell That's not genuine.
[01:01:45] Tania Bhattacharyya: Just be you. Just be you.
[01:01:47] Wendy Kendall: Exactly. Exactly.
[01:01:48] Tania Bhattacharyya: Easier said than done though. Right? Sometimes.
[01:01:51] Wendy Kendall: Just be but but yeah. We say that but, you know, and I was thinking the thing that came to mind immediately there was like the snarky therapist which is like an enormous account on Instagram. So you know, even the snarky therapist Found an enormous community on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:02:12] Wendy Kendall: Those those things that we think Couldn't be possible, you know, there's there's there's a community for all of us.
[01:02:19] Tania Bhattacharyya: There's a community for all of us. That's it.
[01:02:24] Wendy Kendall: Love this. Thank Thank you so much, Tanya. Where can we find you on social media?
[01:02:29] Tania Bhattacharyya: I would say the best place is definitely LinkedIn. That's my place. You can just search for my name and I'll pop right up. So, yeah, I would say LinkedIn is the best place for sure.
[01:02:38] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, and and just remind us your web address as well.
[01:02:43] Tania Bhattacharyya: Oh, yes. It's lumos marketing dotco. So it's lumos marketing dotco. And then because you listen to podcasts, I would say the the last place would be my podcast, which is called the Campfire Circle, which is really all about storytelling and community.
[01:02:57] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. I'm always recommending to my clients who are, You're I'm always recommending Tanya. And, Amber, where can we find you on social media?
[01:03:07] Dr Amber Johnston: I'm mostly on LinkedIn and Instagram. Those are my 2 big platforms at, Healthy Mind Psychology UK, And then it's just my name on LinkedIn.
[01:03:17] Wendy Kendall: Right. Perfect. Love it. Thank you so much for this, time you spent with us today, It was really generous of you to be here, and, I've just had a great time speaking with you today.
[01:03:28] Dr Amber Johnston: Thank you. It was such a pleasure.
[01:03:31] Tania Bhattacharyya: Absolutely. It was so good to see you both, and this was really lovely. Thank you for the opportunity.
[01:03:36] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Pleasure.
[01:03:37] Dr Amber Johnston: Thank you. Bye. Bye bye.
[01:03:43] Wendy Kendall: So we'll keep recording for a bit. And it's maybe and it's just like a, you know, 3 to 5 minute kind of, summary at the end. I know everyone will be getting hungry because I'm sure it's it's well into dinner time and bedtime and bath time and things for Yeah. For you as well.
[01:04:01] Dr Amber Johnston: I can't believe they haven't come in. I told them both, you are not Coming in. They said we promised, but they haven't. I've read you
[01:04:09] Wendy Kendall: the riot act.
[01:04:10] Dr Amber Johnston: Exactly. They're fine. Oh,
[01:04:16] Wendy Kendall: that's so funny. Because I'm just imagining now like a BBC moment, like that child that came in at the back on the BBC.
[01:04:24] Dr Amber Johnston: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:04:26] Wendy Kendall: So, yeah, just like a a couple of points for you know that you I guess the the question is really like what did you really take from the conversation? What were a couple of points that really that really struck you or that, that changed a perspective on something or that just really brought something home. So I'm gonna make a I'm gonna have a minute to just make some notes and you may be already ready but I just need a minute to prep.
[01:07:09] Wendy Kendall: Is it okay if I ask you to go first?
[01:07:13] Wendy Kendall: Right. I'll I'll come in with a bit of a thing. So, Amber, I loved that conversation with Tanya and just so many things that She shared that, you know, even though Tanya is supporting people who are not just psychologists but Supporting lots of different people. You know, it seems like a lot of, the concerns that people Hold around being visible and a lot of the the healing and growth experiences they can have are also, You know, like like the psychologists when we're also not alone in this, and we're not alone in being able to kind of find growth opportunities either, which makes me feel really hopeful about, you know, the fact that that can also be really positive for the clients that we wanna work with. But I was just curious about what you really took from that conversation with with Tanya.
[01:08:15] Dr Amber Johnston: You know, I think the main thing that I saw there was that when we think about social media, I think a lot of times, the first thing that pops up is something that feels really kind of egocentric or ego driven, and that's, I think, where a lot of people have that Kind of bad taste in their mouth from it. So they just feel like this is not in line with my value system or what I do as, you know, a professional as a as a clinician. And I think she was really just Reframing the entire concept to say that it's not just about, you know, you going out there and boasting about yourself. This is about creating Community about growth, about knowledge, about sharing, about finding, you know, the people who haven't been able to necessarily stand up and say the things, and, You know, you become a voice for them, and that creates community for them too. So there's something that really switches from it feeling, you know, somehow, Like, inappropriate to something that actually feels much more necessary and valuable that a lot of people win from it.
[01:09:17] Wendy Kendall: Exactly. Yeah. I love that. I love that, that phrase a lot of people win. Absolutely.
[01:09:23] Wendy Kendall: And, You know, just kind of building on that a little bit, I think, for me anyway, thinking about how Through those interactions, through those the different ways in which we can show up. You know, we were talking there about Whether it's doodling, whether it's memes, whether it's stories, whether it's video podcasting, whatever it might be, you know, Finding out more about who we are and then finding acceptance from others in that. Not just acceptance, but people genuinely connecting with that. That's incredibly powerful. It's incredibly powerful for us.
[01:10:05] Wendy Kendall: And as you said, it's incredibly powerful for other people to realize, actually, there are also people like me out there who work. Mhmm. Yeah. And to me there's, you know, going back to the whole self, the leadership thing and thinking about, you know, some of the things we talk about in, internal family systems. 2 of the qualities in fact, we've talked about 3 qualities of self leadership today.
[01:10:35] Wendy Kendall: One is courage. So we've referred so many times to how Actually, this can help us to connect also with, the courageous parts of ourselves and the other 2 are perspective and playfulness and, you know, bringing those qualities in, it doesn't have to be a chore, it doesn't have to be, like you said, egotistical. It can really be about, like, really joyful human qualities that we can show up with, and that I feel like that's also a nice thing to have in her practices.
[01:11:16] Dr Amber Johnston: I think the play interest it you know, nobody really knows how to play as an adult anymore. So the idea of having This being, you know, a source of play, the screaming goats. Yeah. Just, you know, it's playful, and it's humorous, and it is connect, And it's really nice to have more and more examples of how we can Yeah. Have playtime, which is so necessary.
[01:11:42] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. Yeah. So maybe Maybe visibility is not just not a chore. It's actually playtime in our practices.
[01:11:50] Dr Amber Johnston: Can they? Absolutely. You know, one more comment that I just have, which I find so funny and so interesting too is that, you know, Tanya, Tanya's talking about the narrative of, you know, I'm not great with visual, and and That's gonna be her experience. Yet I just noticed that she's filled with language. That was just creating so much visual Yes.
[01:12:09] Dr Amber Johnston: Stimulation for me. So I was experiencing a vision of the campfire and the garden and and getting the weeds out and Yeah. These pieces in the hangover, the vulnerability hangover, her use of language, which she has known to be her skill, is really crafted, Something that maybe she isn't even fully aware of how much it is instilling in in other people around her too.
[01:12:34] Wendy Kendall: Yeah. So that's exactly that that kind of That piece about branding that I was trying to explain in words that are not as eloquent as Tanner. Yeah. Which was that, that that in this way, in this playfulness, we kind of re we find more parts of ourself as well and and get to know more parts of ourselves and, yeah, I that really strikes home for me as well that that's, It's also about other people how other people experience us.
[01:13:10] Dr Amber Johnston: Yeah. I love
[01:13:11] Wendy Kendall: that. Awesome. Thank you so much, Amber. It's been a joy to co host this with you.
[01:13:18] Dr Amber Johnston: It has. Thanks for having me. This has been fantastic, and it's So nice to to meet Tanya and hear about what she's doing and, you know, how we can all be thinking along her ways for moving forward. So cool.
[01:13:30] Wendy Kendall: Wonderful. Thanks everyone and, until next time. This was the inspiring psychologist podcast.
